Those suggestions landed with a thud at the recent meeting at Christ Chapel.
Neves said the church had considered staggered and expanded services to dilute the number of visitors at one time, but “that’s not the way we operate here,” he said.
Members enjoy coming together in one large group on Sundays. And the church isn’t advertising for new members. “It’s the spirit of God driving them here,” Neves said.
Galbreath said a bigger parking garage was too expensive.
“Everything is a function of economics — churches are no different than a business,” he said.
Besides, Neves said, a taller garage wouldn’t look right.
“We built it the size that it is right now because it was compatible with the building that we have here,” he said.
Church members often shun off-site parking areas like the ones across Montgomery Street at the antique mall and instead choose to park curbside in the neighborhood.
“It’s human nature to want to park close by,” Galbreath said.
Fine, neighbors responded, then let them park along the curb — but don’t cram more parking lots down our throats.
“We’re unified,” Peters said. “We have solidarity. The people here don’t want this. The church has never even attempted to try to solve their parking issues by any other fashion than by building more parking lots. They are tunnel-focused on building these parking spots. We’re saying, ‘Hey, let’s slow this down and look at other alternatives.’ ”
Few churches in town have as many parking spaces per members as Christ Chapel. For instance, Glenview Baptist Church and its 4,000 members make do with about 800 adjacent surface parking spaces and no remote lots.
Christ Chapel might be huge in scope, but it’s also a landmark building standing at a major gateway to the Cultural District, Neves said.
“We have a beautiful piece of architecture here that was designed to accommodate the city and to accompany the museum district,” he said.
He didn’t mention blending with the neighborhood.
Regardless, nobody forced the neighbors to sell their houses to the church.
“We offer market value for a home, and we feel like we’re not running anybody off,” Neves said.
The proposed parking lot might be the last bit of expansion into the neighborhood. Church leaders plan to handle future growth by establishing satellite campuses, Executive Pastor Bill Egner said.
“We know we need to be looking at other places to plant some churches,” he said. “That’s going to offload some people and their automobiles. We know that’s what we need to do.”
Neighbors hear the words but don’t know whether to believe.
********
Andrew Swartzfager knows a thing or two about negotiating. He’s worked in real estate and understands the housing market. When the church approached him about selling his house on Pershing Avenue in the early 2000s, he took his time. He found a bigger house for sale nearby — but not too close.
“I wanted to get away from them,” he said. “That’s why I didn’t buy one a block away, I bought one five blocks away.”
Give me enough money to buy the new house, he told them, and I’ll give you my old house.
“I was more schooled in the way to do it,” he said. “I knew the number I had to reach. It took a long time to get the church to that number, but eventually they did.”
Disney and other church officials insist on nondisclosure agreements when buying properties, but Swartzfager refused to sign one. He said the church gave him $150,000.
“They bargained very hard about everything, but they stick to their agreements, and they are honest,” he said. “They have followed to the letter the agreement.”
Not everyone is as savvy as Swartzfager.
Maria Duran and her family have lived on Pershing for 12 years. The church has made offers on her house over the years, and Duran finally agreed to sell in May. She doesn’t speak English, and she talked to the Weekly through an interpreter.
“They offered a little more than it was appraised for,” she said, but wouldn’t reveal the price.
The Durans have until December to move out. But they’re discovering that the amount of money they received from the church isn’t enough to find a comparable house nearby. The church negotiated fairly and did not pressure them to sell, Duran said, but now she sees that she made a mistake. She worries she’ll have to move to a new neighborhood and put her children in new schools.
“I like it here,” she said.
So why did she sell?
Other houses on her street had already been sold, a parking lot was coming, and she worried that her house’s property value would plummet.
Two lots down, Al Ramirez told a similar tale. He recently sold to the church for fair market value but discovered he didn’t make enough to cover the cost of buying another house nearby and moving all his stuff. He never wanted to sell in the first place, but “everybody is selling, and I don’t want to be next to all the parking,” he said. “I should have let them find me a house. It’s too late now.”
If he could do it over, he would find a replacement house first and ask for more money, he said.
Perception of the church isn’t all bad. Roszek, who lives a block away, doesn’t attend the church, but she sometimes attends the free concerts and theatrical productions there, including secular shows such as The Lion King and The Music Man.
“They have top-notch musicians and singers,” she said. “They are just the most incredible productions that you can find for free anywhere.”
Free shows are good for the community at large, but “that doesn’t mean they are a good neighbor,” she said. “I think of the old Joni Mitchell song, ‘Pave paradise and put up a parking lot.’ ”
Christ Chapel’s property acquisition methods are unethical, said Gil Ferrell, who for many years was in charge of new church development with the United Methodist Church. In 2004 he wrote a letter to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram questioning Christ Chapel’s expansion.
“No one wants to live smack up against a big-box church anymore than a big-box Wal-Mart or Target,” he wrote. “So, one house is bought and demolished, and the next in line has no salability except to the church.”
He hasn’t softened his stance. Contacted at the Fort Worth retirement center where he now lives, Ferrell said he still has negative feelings about churches pushing deep into neighborhoods.
“Christ Chapel goes in and buys property, knowing the property adjacent will be devalued, and therefore they are the only potential purchaser,” he said.
While working in church develop-ment, Ferrell said he sought sites that had enough vacant land to accommodate future growth, a consideration Christ Chapel ignored when it bought the old Birchman Baptist Church site.
“Christ Chapel ought to have gone to an area where [open] property already existed and they could have bought eight or 10 acres, which would have been adequate,” he said. “But to go into an old neighborhood and buy an old church property and begin expanding — that has ethical issues and economic issues for people who are affected by it.”
Peters lives a block north of the church. Now, instead of having Ramirez and Duran as neighbors in houses with trees and yards, he’ll live next to a parking lot. You can’t borrow a cup of sugar from a parking lot, he said. And parking lots owned by churches don’t generate taxes, whereas homes with families in them create a steady stream of revenue for the city. Peters counted 11 homes that would be cleared out to make way for the church’s latest expansion plan.
“My property tax bill is $8,500,” he said. “You could add 11 houses at $8,000 a year each. That’s $90,000 that could go to the city. That’s two teachers, two firefighters, a police squad car. But right now the city gets nothing from those lots.”
Churches enjoy an unfair advantage, he said. Paying no taxes means they have more money available to reinvest in property and keep growing.
“Churches make great de facto real estate holding companies,” Peters said. “They can acquire property, keep it off the tax rolls, and then they can sell the property when it appraises at a much higher amount, five, 10, 15 years down the road.”
Fueling the neighbors’ suspicion is the fact that Galbreath of Dunaway Associates — the church’s architect — also represents Wal-Mart in similar situations. Most recently, Galbreath spoke for Wal-Mart when the super retailer sought controversial zoning variances on West Berry Street. Arlington Heights residents wonder what might happen if the church gets its large lot zoned commercial and then decides to move to a new location one day.
“It would be pretty attractive for them to bundle all that land together and sell it,” Peters said.
“We don’t strong-arm people; we offer them fair market value,” spokesman Rick Neves said.
Spoken like a true Texas Republican businessman without the slightest hint of influence from the teachings of Jesus Christ. There is nothing more hilarious than a Texas ‘Christian’ conservative.
Do these church charlatans know ANYTHING about what Jesus Christ taught?
Like the fair market value offered by leftist Corzine to the investors at MF Global after he ripped off 2.3 billion for his second wife to refurb a French castle? Or lobbying activities of leftist Axelrod with Excelon? Life is GOOD if you have a corrupt DOJ and leftist president for a crony…(lol)
So sorry, i omitted the word “Godless” from the leftist description.
What JN means to say is, if “godless leftists” can do it then it’s OK for conservative Christians to do it too. You have to laugh at that response as it only reiterates what you said.
Actually the first intention of the commenter was to politicize the issue( which I suspect was the underlying intention of the author). Of course, that was short sighted given the obvious problems and lack of insight thereof one might attribute to the opposition.
It’s hard not to come to the conclusion that this is a smear piece when obvious details and any attempt at real number crunching is left out…
– The author strongly implies that there is a single Christ Chapel service on Sundays when there are in fact 3 separate Sunday services.
– And comparing a grass church parking lot, which will only be used on Sundays, to that of a Wal-Mart? Is that a joke? I for one would love to have a parking lot like that behind my house or close by, because it would be great for throwing the ball and playing with the kids, and it’s only occupied one day a week.
– Nothing from the author or course on the fact that Christ Chapel has donated all the usable houses by moving them to other locations and giving them to needy families.
A lack of research leads to a lack of credibility.
“The author strongly implies that there is a single Christ Chapel service on Sundays when there are in fact 3 separate Sunday services”
— The large majority of Christ Chapel’s church members go to church on Sunday mornings between 9 and noon. Thousands of them show up during the same approximate time period. Neighbors wanted church leaders to expand services to other days and times, but the church refused.
.
“Comparing a grass church parking lot, which will only be used on Sundays, to that of a Wal-Mart? Is that a joke?”
The story wasn’t comparing a grass church parking lot to a Wal-Mart, it was comparing the entire 10-acre church complex to a Wal-Mart. Sounds like you’re the one using selective information to draft a smear piece.
“Nothing from the author of course on the fact that Christ Chapel has donated all the usable houses by moving them to other locations and giving them to needy families.”
Some houses were torn down, others were moved (which I stated in the article). I left messages with different church officials and with Tom Galbreath on Aug. 29 to ask for a tour of the facility and to do more interviewing. My goal when writing a story is to listen to all sides. Nobody from the church returned my call except for Bill Egner, who called me back six days after I left him a message — his call came in on the same day we were going to press with the story. We talked on the phone and I added some of his comments to the story before we published.
Fair enough, but you’re picking the words and it just sounds slanted. When you say that the church “refused” to expand services to other days and times, do you realize how asinine that sounds when the church already has 3 services on Sundays?
Actually it doesn’t if you read it correctly – the story isn’t implying they refused to expand outside of ONE service. And they DID refuse to expand outside those 3 services. Expansion is expansion no matter what number you start with.
OK so they should do 7 services a week, or maybe 9? Do people realize that it costs a lot of money and requires the efforts of 100+ people to put on an additional service?
It seems they have plenty of money to buy up property and build more structures and parking lots all of the time. I’m sure they could find the cash to do an extra service or two.
Envious (much)?
Typical anti -Christian BS.
JN, this has nothing to do with Christianity if you read the story. You should try that. The only thing that may qualify as such is a lack of compassion. It’s more about politics and zoning. Don’t be so quick to say something so obviously incorrect.
Sigh,… where to began on the audacity of this anti Christian hit piece. So the “story” is all about politics and “zoning”, Foxy?– Really?–It seems to me that instead of taking the well intentioned advice of the Zoning Commisioner Nick Genua to form a neighborhood steering committee, Red headed activist Ms. Wiley launched into a childish temper tantrum which included aggressively rufusing his advice and slandering the church as a Christian “cult” (whatever that means..). Never mind that the church occupying a small portion of a triangle bounded by 3 of the busiest streets in Ft. Worth (Camp Bowie , Montgomery, and I-30) is nastily featured as “the church that ATE Arlington Heights “on the FWW cover (imagine how a similarly slanted feature re: a putatively “offensive” Mosque/Synagogue /Buddhist temple would inspire leftist outrage).Never mind that the church actually improved the neighborhood by erecting a classical neogothic structure in place of an older building in a frankly run down area–after paying off the note ( a novelty no doubt to Mr. Prince). Also Mr. Peters? “Parking lots don’t make good neighbors” …and the noise from I-30 does? The church (lol) disturbs the “tranquility” of a business industrial area 2 blocks from I-30? and a new limited use structure decreases property values? Sorry, no sale… sounds like an anti-Christian FWW orchestrated attempt at a “shake down” of the peaceful Christian community
Why did you have to describe Ms. Wiley as “Red headed?” That has absolutely nothing to do with her as a person. As a red head, and a woman, it’s very annoying that the first thing you mention about someone is the color of their hair, when it has nothing to do with the rest of the comment.
She was depicted as such by the “author” of the hit piece.
…You might take up your objections with Mr. Prince….
I’ve lived in this neighborhood my entire life and no one in this community appreciates the church expansion. Property values are declining. The church is an eye sore. The parking garage is disgusting. This was a small, historic community that now has to deal with a mega church eating up property and creating a Sunday morning nussance for those of us that enjoy sleeping off hangovers, hosting cook outs and taking the dogs out for walks. I’m happy that this article was written without religious bias. The article points out the religious bias shown by the city and government when allowing churches to expand and rezone. It is about a large business destroying the spirit of a community and neighborhood.
So here’s the rub for the church. You’ve got some neighbors who complain that the church needs a bigger parking garage so nobody parks on the street. And then others like you who complain about everything INCLUDING the parking garage. So if they built a bigger one you’d be complaining about that. And I love how people call it an eyesore, when objectively speaking it’s one of the better looking churches to go up in Fort Worth in quite some time. Stone construction, nice slate roof, great landscaping, etc. Beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder, but that’s not an ugly building.
The church wants to be in the middle of the city, because unlike what’s implied by the article, most of its members live within 10 minutes drive. And short of moving out to the far suburbs away from everything, they just can’t win. Everyone has something to complain about…
Oh, wow. “Others like you…” Oh, man. That made me laugh. Others like me that actually live in the neighborhood and talk to neighbors and attend neighborhood association meetings and listen to concerns about this church taking over our community? Yes. Others like me. It doesn’t matter to us how much they try to beautify the overgrown church, it matters to me that they destroyed 90 year old homes and trees, turned my neighborhood into something else entirely, ignored protests from the community, and used the word “church” to get rezoning passed.
And yes. Everyone has something to complain about. I guess the importance in the declining value of one’s propery is also in the eye of the beholder- or mortgage payer- which you obviously aren’t in my neighborhood. I wouldn’t want you to be grouped into the “others like you” category you so rightfully placed me in.
And objectively speaking, you aren’t so objective as you claim to be. Your previous posts actually demonstrate your partiality. But that’s ok, sometimes I don’t know how to use words properly either.
I think this was a nice little chat, Chris P. Have a great day. I’m going to start planning my use of the new grassy field you would personally love to have in your back yard. I’m thinking keggers and BBQs Saturday nights followed up with topless sunbathing on Sunday mornings with some girlfriends… Now that’s something to pray about. 😉
Oh, wow. “Others like you…” Oh, man. That made me laugh. Others like me that actually live in the neighborhood and talk to neighbors and attend neighborhood association meetings and listen to concerns about this church taking over our community? Yes. Others like me. It doesn’t matter to us how much they try to beautify the overgrown church, it matters to me that they destroyed 90 year old homes and trees, turned my neighborhood into something else entirely, ignored protests from the community, and used the word “church” to get rezoning passed.
And yes. Everyone has something to complain about. I guess the importance in the declining value of one’s propery is also in the eye of the beholder- or mortgage payer- which you obviously aren’t in my neighborhood. I wouldn’t want you to be grouped into the “others like you” category you so rightfully placed me in.
And objectively speaking, you aren’t so objective as you claim to be. Your previous posts actually demonstrate your partiality. But that’s ok, sometimes I don’t know how to use words properly either.
It’s good to see that others have picked up on the bias in this article. I was interested in it in the first place because I recognized the church and know quite a bit about it, but I was disgusted to read what the author had to say. As someone else commented, many of the homes have been moved to poor areas – such as Como – to be used as affordable housing. This would have been a nice detail to see in the article.
More importantly, I think that the whole premise is wrong. The church is not forcing anyone out of their homes; they are simply offering to buy homes. Arlington Heights is certainly not the finest of neighborhoods, and I can imagine that plenty of the people love the opportunity to be paid for their houses.
The parking lots and expansions are absolutely necessary because of the sheer size of the congregation. It isn’t entirely uncommon for the three parking lots and parking garage to completely fill up, so that people have to park either across Montgomery St (dangerous) or along the neighborhood’s streets (obnoxious).
Brothers and Sisters:
There are two things people in Fort Worth cannot get enough of in no particular order of importance: church and parking. It seems the imbroglio in and around Christ Chapel Bible Church has both of these in ways and means that would make Fort Worth proud. It should be titled, “How Can I Pray if God Has Not Reserved a Good Parking Space Nearby to His Son Before that Pilate Guy Gets Him.”
See, I remember when people would go to a church in their neighborhood, walking there normally, checking out who had not yet removed their Christmas lights and who had paint chips falling and maybe a car up on blocks in the backyard. And yelling and screaming coming through the screens. You went to the service after observing the herd you lived among, listened to some guy with a collar and flowing robes dissect his abstract view of life, and them move on home. This is where you watched football on TV and drank beer or mowed the lawn to get away from the family. The evening began and ended when Andy Rooney would say something similar to “These are my keys …”
It was all about getting outside of oneself, not locked inside of your own mental masturbation, and without having to find a parking space to accomplish all this. See, you could imagine being at church in Arlington Hts. without using up valuable parking, and get just as much out of it as being there in a physical sense. Sorry, I’m probably going too fast for many of you.
So, to all you members of Christ Chapel Bible Church, take some Sundays off from time to time, read some Charles Bukowski or explore the niceties of J.R. “Bob” Dobbs and his SunGenius’ unidentified flying objects spinning around with the Dead Kennedys “Forward to Death” as background music. All this, and not once thinking about parking and contemplating coveting thy neighbors house by tearing it down. Maybe you even write an epistle, addressing the letter to the Arlington Heights Street Parking-olonians. “I saw the Lord’s work, and it was about directing traffic on Montgomery Street. And it was good.”
I will pray for you all. Back to dancing. Free from motion-less car thought.
ICD
Pastor
Church of the Ballroom Blitz
In my opinion, Christ Chapel is known for it’s arrogant leaders, as well as, it’s arrogant parishioners. They just can’t seem to keep from cramming God and their sense of “entitlement” down outsiders’ throat’s as evidenced in this article. I know from personal experience, as I have been questioned by members about my church attendance, as if God actually is taking role and it will affect my chance of an afterlife. Some how, some way, they want you to think they are better. So….let’s see…. living a life of righteousness, showing kindness and concern to our follow man is Not what Jesus had in mind? No….YOU HAVE TO TO CHURCH!
As one of the MANY people in Arlington Heights who attend CCBC, and one who lives a few blocks away from the church, one thing that has been ridiculous over the years has been the romanticizing of the neighborhood immediately surrounding it. When the church began its expansion campaign a large percentage – actually, I believe it was the majority – of the houses were rental property, many of which weren’t well cared for. Frankly, though I’m fond of the neighborhood, having lived here over 30 years, it was run-down and tired.
As I drove home from errands this afternoon, I noticed how along Calmont several houses are or have been remodeled. Since the new building was erected, many houses have been updated. If this is how CCBC is destroying the neighborhood, then I’m all in favor.
The author of this wholly biased, pathetic piece of “reporting” (any journalism class would have stamped a big F on it) omitted a very salient point which seems to have been forgotten by a lot of people, including those in the surrounding blocks: there was to have been a hotel of some sort – not an upscale one – built where is now the parking lot on the SE corner of the property. I was not at all happy about the thought of that dratted hotel (which one WAS it? The chain wasn’t as cheap as Motel 6, but it wasn’t a Ramada, either), and neither was the church nor the neighbors. The church stretched itself financially and managed to buy the property from the guy who owned it and was going to build the hotel (IIRC, he didn’t own quite enough property to allow for what he wanted, and when the church refused to sell to him, he instead sold to them).
Either Mr. Prince was aware of this and chose to ignore it as it didn’t fit the screed he was so clearly determined to write, or he’s a sub-standard reporter who missed a key piece of information.
Neither reflect well on him.
CCBC members:
I went looking in the Bible for verses that give some inspiration that show how to deal with people nearby who live in an area that is “run-down and tired” and who might be renters. Or what to do with “the thought of that dratted hotel” and what type of evil people might be sleeping there at night.
Couldn’t find any verses about those things. Found many like these, however:
“And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
Luke 4:17-19
“Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20).
“If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.” Deut. 15:7
“When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and repayment come to you. But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.” Luke 14:12-14.
“The young man said to Him, “All these commands I have kept; what am I still lacking?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” Mt. 19:20ff.
Maybe instead of buying up these properties with “rundown and tired” people living in them and then tearing them down so that no one can ever live there again (a church cleansing, if you will), perhaps you should just put a wall around your church to keep you away from such people and sit in your wonderful building without all that bother.
I am aware of the church but am not a member. I have lived in the area for 20 years and I am also aware of the improved appearance of the surrounding neighborhood, since the church has been built. The information regarding the plan to build a budget hotel on or near the property fits with the recent appearance of a new crop (too many perhaps?) of budget hotels near the medical district. Incidentally such hotels are not good neighbors– Arlington recently had to demolish a run down hotel near 360 which had fallen into disrepair and was a haven for drug addicts, prostitutes, etc. I am likely overly suspicious, but it seems to me to be bad journalisitic form to avoid interviewing the target of your reporting until two days before a major national holiday and one day before the “item” goes to press. Obviously any kook with an axe to grind seems to be given preferential treatment compared to the church–including pictures . The FWW specializes in faux “victims”. I also suspect that since the church was “buying” houses, some saw it as an opportunity to get “a better deal”. It is a shame, but pretty transparent to the average reader…
There you go with your made-up facts again. After the meeting between residents and church leaders, I approached Rick Neves that same night and asked to set up an interview and church tour with a church official. He told me to call Egner. I called both Egner and Rick Disney, as well as Tom Galbreath on Wednesday, Aug. 29. I received no reply from any of them for six days. The major national holiday you are speaking about is Labor Day, which fell on Sept. 3. They could have called me back on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday in the days leading up to the holiday weekend. They could have even called me on Saturday or Sunday. There was plenty of time for somebody with the church to return my call before the day we published.
Jeff,
Most people consider the major national holidays falling on a Monday, to start on the preceeding weekend. So you called on Weds. Aug 29 . The holiday weekend (when many people go out of town for a long weekend holiday) starts for many on Fri Aug 31. It is unlikely that any business person would answer such a call until after the completion of the Labor Day holiday on Sept 4…about 6 days… Perhaps you should have held back the article since it does not appear that adequate notice to the “target” was given. If they had disagreed to do an interview, you would have a valid point.
As I read this, I was thankful it was a clear and unbiased stance by the writer. That’s a joke son…that’s a joke.
I wonder if there would be this much venom about the church if it wasn’t a church. Perhaps it was a movie theater that’s been there for 20 or 30 years and it wanted to expand, build a parking lot, and give people fair market value. Would they still use words like “bully” or “arrogant”? Perhaps we enjoy flexing our muscles at a church? Churches grow because they help people along, meet their needs, often in troubled times. I can’t hate that.
In reading all the comments it seems like the one thing everyone can agree on is that the church is simply too big for its location.
“The church is simply too big for tits location”.. Not, apparently to the Ft. Worth Planning and Zoning Commission which allowed the church to be built and is attempting to get the neighborhood anti parking lot “activists” to form a steering committee ( a reasonable suggestion rejected by those individuals vociferously complaining, by the way)
Is there a Hooter’s nearby?
Maybe that’s why Birchman Baptist left and moved to west FW so it could find a larger lot to grow into instead of doing what Christ Chapel is doing.
Hey FW Weekly – When will you do an article about what Christ Chapel has done for the community? With fair representation from both sides?
What have they done? It’s my understanding that it’s not much. A church this big could make a big difference for homeless people like a meals on wheels thing or instead of building a megatheater with electric light show and giant screen TV’s, why not build a shelter or a place where poor people can come eat for free.
Churches like this are just big country clubs IMO.
BTW: I can’t recall Jesus asking anybody to sign a nondisclosure agreement.
I have been involved in the process since the very night that Jeff Prince attended the meeting. No one on this forum has any of the facts correct so you are basically arguing about nothing. Some facts I will throw out quickly are these. A joint steering committee was not denied it was formed immediately and has been working with the church since that meeting and is still working as we speak. Contrary to what most of you probably think the conversation has been very civil and professional on both sides of the table. Fact: the church does have three services but they are at two times. One service at 9 and TWO at 11. As far as traffic flow goes this is essentially only two services. If parking is really the issue then they could greatly reduce the number of people on campus at one time by staggering services. I attend an Arlington heights church and we offer three staggered services. When the neighborhood proposed this idea it was rejected by the church. This is not an anti church or religion issue. We have people in the neighborhood from all different faiths and beliefs. Fact: the church currently has about 300% of the amount of parking required by the city. (They require 1 spot for every 5 seats in sanctuary). With the new lot they will be at 400% of required parking which is nearly one spot for every seat. Any questions about facts of the issue I will try to answer. I will try to stay out of opinions as much as I can but I’m sure my tone will show my side of the issue. But these items here are facts and I encourage you to get involved if you are concerned about this issue.
I have been involved in the process since the very night that Jeff Prince attended the meeting. No one on this forum has any of the facts correct so you are basically arguing about nothing. Some facts I will throw out quickly are these. A joint steering committee was not denied it was formed immediately and has been working with the church since that meeting and is still working as we speak. Contrary to what most of you probably think the conversation has been very civil and professional on both sides of the table. Fact: the church does have three services but they are at two times. One service at 9 and TWO at 11. As far as traffic flow goes this is essentially only two services. If parking is really the issue then they could greatly reduce the number of people on campus at one time by staggering services. I attend an Arlington heights church and we offer three staggered services. When the neighborhood proposed this idea it was rejected by the church. This is not an anti church or religion issue. We have people in the neighborhood from all different faiths and beliefs. Fact: the church currently has about 300% of the amount of parking required by the city. (They require 1 spot for every 5 seats in sanctuary). With the new lot they will be at 400% of required parking which is nearly one spot for every seat. Any questions about facts of the issue I will try to answer. I will try to stay out of opinions as much as I can but I’m sure my tone will show my side of the issue.
I have been involved in the process since the very night that Jeff Prince attended the meeting. No one on this forum has any of the facts correct so you are basically arguing about nothing. Some facts I will throw out quickly are these. A joint steering committee was not denied it was formed immediately and has been working with the church since that meeting and is still working as we speak. Contrary to what most of you probably think the conversation has been very civil and professional on both sides of the table. Fact: the church does have three services but they are at two times. One service at 9 and TWO at 11. As far as traffic flow goes this is essentially only two services. If parking is really the issue then they could greatly reduce the number of people on campus at one time by staggering services. I attend an Arlington heights church and we offer three staggered services. When the neighborhood proposed this idea it was rejected by the church. This is not an anti church or religion issue. We have people in the neighborhood from all different faiths and beliefs. Fact: the church currently has about 300% of the amount of parking required by the city. (They require 1 spot for every 5 seats in sanctuary). With the new lot they will be at 400% of required parking which is nearly one spot for every seat. Any questions about facts of the issue I will try to answer.
I have been involved in the process since the very night that Jeff Prince attended the meeting. No one on this forum has any of the facts correct so you are basically arguing about nothing. Some facts I will throw out quickly are these. A joint steering committee was not denied it was formed immediately and has been working with the church since that meeting and is still working as we speak. Contrary to what most of you probably think the conversation has been very civil and professional on both sides of the table. Fact: the church does have three services but they are at two times. One service at 9 and TWO at 11. As far as traffic flow goes this is essentially only two services. If parking is really the issue then they could greatly reduce the number of people on campus at one time by staggering services. I attend an Arlington heights church and we offer three staggered services. When the neighborhood proposed this idea it was rejected by the church. This is not an anti church or religion issue. We have people in the neighborhood from all different faiths and beliefs. Fact: the church currently has about 300% of the amount of parking required by the city. (They require 1 spot for every 5 seats in sanctuary). With the new lot they will be at 400% of required parking which is nearly one spot for every seat.
No one on this forum has any of the facts correct so you are basically arguing about nothing. Some facts I will throw out quickly are these. A joint steering committee was not denied it was formed immediately and has been working with the church since that meeting and is still working as we speak. Contrary to what most of you probably think the conversation has been very civil and professional on both sides of the table. Fact: the church does have three services but they are at two times. One service at 9 and TWO at 11. As far as traffic flow goes this is essentially only two services. If parking is really the issue then they could greatly reduce the number of people on campus at one time by staggering services. I attend an Arlington heights church and we offer three staggered services. When the neighborhood proposed this idea it was rejected by the church. This is not an anti church or religion issue. We have people in the neighborhood from all different faiths and beliefs. Fact: the church currently has about 300% of the amount of parking required by the city. (They require 1 spot for every 5 seats in sanctuary). With the new lot they will be at 400% of required parking which is nearly one spot for every seat.
No one on this forum has any of the facts correct so you are basically arguing about nothing. Fact: A joint steering committee was not denied it was formed immediately and has been working with the church since that meeting and is still working as we speak. Contrary to what most of you probably think the conversation has been very civil and professional on both sides of the table. Fact: the church does have three services but they are at two times. One service at 9 and TWO at 11. As far as traffic flow goes this is essentially only two services. If parking is really the issue then they could greatly reduce the number of people on campus at one time by staggering services. I attend an Arlington heights church and we offer three staggered services. When the neighborhood proposed this idea it was rejected by the church. This is not an anti church or religion issue. We have people in the neighborhood from all different faiths and beliefs. Fact: the church currently has about 300% of the amount of parking required by the city. (They require 1 spot for every 5 seats in sanctuary). With the new lot they will be at 400% of required parking which is nearly one spot for every seat.
Fact: A joint steering committee was not denied it was formed immediately and has been working with the church since that meeting and is still working as we speak. Contrary to what most of you probably think the conversation has been very civil and professional on both sides of the table. Fact: the church does have three services but they are at two times. One service at 9 and TWO at 11. As far as traffic flow goes this is essentially only two services. If parking is really the issue then they could greatly reduce the number of people on campus at one time by staggering services. I attend an Arlington heights church and we offer three staggered services. When the neighborhood proposed this idea it was rejected by the church. This is not an anti church or religion issue. We have people in the neighborhood from all different faiths and beliefs. Fact: the church currently has about 300% of the amount of parking required by the city. (They require 1 spot for every 5 seats in sanctuary). With the new lot they will be at 400% of required parking which is nearly one spot for every seat.
Fact: The church does have three services but two of them are at the same time so that doesn’t really count as three services when traffic flow is the issue. The neighborhood proposed staggering the sevices to reduce the number of people on campus at a time and the church refused it on the spot without any deliberation.
Fact: I believe it was said above that the neighborhood refused to form a steering committee. This is not true. One was formed immediately and began meeting on a regular basis with the church. And contrary to what most of you expect the conversation has been very civil, respectful and professional.
Any other facts that need addressing?
Sorry about the multiple responses. This was done in error. I apologize for clutter.
Thank you, Neighbor! I just finished watching last night’s FW City Council Meeting posted online and applaud the efforts of the AHNA and Councilman Shingleton. Your hard work is certainly appreciated by my family, friends and our neighbors who take great pride in calling Arlington Heights home.